My Aspie 18 year old don' eat. - She is bordering on anorexic, being 164 cm tall and only 46 kilo's (5foot 3 and 101 pounds?). But I cant seem to stir her appetite.
She keeps wanting to eat white sliced loaf with honey,- and that only once a day,- and nothing much else. I buy her healthy stuff she calims she likes,- but she says she 'just forgets' its there, and doesnt eat it, and often I have to throw it out..
Any advice?
She keeps wanting to eat white sliced loaf with honey,- and that only once a day,- and nothing much else. I buy her healthy stuff she calims she likes,- but she says she 'just forgets' its there, and doesnt eat it, and often I have to throw it out..
Any advice?
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Switzerland
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 7:32 AMMy first reaction is to get her to a doctor. See if she's willing to visit a psychiatrist. Being Asperger's doesn't rule out that she may be Anorexic on top of that. Not that that's definite. It may be a sign of depression also - which would necessitate a psychiatric visit itself.
I know I've always been a very picky eater. I refuse to eat condiments - no ketchup, no mustard, no mayo, etc. I also refuse to eat aged foods like cheese, beer, wine, or pickles. I eat only certain food combinations based on texture. That sort of thing. But despite limited menus, I eat a healthy amount of food. I only fast when I'm caught up in something like a new video game or a puzzle that's taking all my focus. When I'm done, I'll realize how hungry I am and 'catch up.' :) -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 11:54 AMWe are seeing a doctor, and she made a few suggestions.. based on what she Ought to eat.. but none on how to get her to eat!
It doent help that my daughter seemed very enthusiastic when we had that conversation.. but as I said, as and when I cook the foods my daughter thinks she wants to eat, she ends up having no appetite when it is served.. and only after several reminders and encouragement, does she get onto it.
As she is at college all day, I have no conclusive information as to what she eats during the day.. probably a few chocolate bars or such,- and often she skips dinner and has a kebap,-
She has always puzzled me with her food habits, and what you say about textures and sauces is what I am curious about. That seems to be the deciding factor, if she feels like eating it or not..
She has always been very faddy,- since baby really,- so this isnt a new thing.
"I eat only certain food combinations based on texture. That sort of thing"
can you tell me more about that? -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 3:09 PMIf her health isn't being threatened (and that really would be the only time you should take action on her behalf), then aurelia is right - leave her alone to make her own food choices as an independent adult. I have known people with anorexia who might've avoided lengthy hospital stays if someone had taken action for them early on.
As for textures and food - a good example is peanut butter. I can't stand p.b. and jelly sandwiches. I refuse to eat recess peanut butter cups. The only way you can get me to eat it is with raisins. I'll eat a p.b. and raisin sandwich and be content. The raisins tend to break up the texture of the p.b. and make it not as 'stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth-y."
Another example is peaches. I can't stand the fuzzy skin on peaches, so I won't eat them. But I'll eat nectarines which taste almost identical - they're just fuzz-free.
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sun, July 15, 2007 - 7:32 AMThe texture thing seems very common I am noticing...
I cant eat pickles or onions or mustard... just something weird feeling about them...
while I can eat ketchup (either curry or american) and mayonase (on my fries of course (G))
anything that is mushy I refuse to eat... so things like over done asparagus or brocoli and cauliflower.. EWWWWW....
now my son does the same thing .... but does what your daughter does with bread... he will sit down and eat a loaf if I let him but refuses to eat mushy things...
hard to explain though... shrugs...
Have you tried non mushy things with her????
chris
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 5:10 PM>> I know I've always been a very picky eater. I refuse to eat condiments - no ketchup, no mustard, no mayo, etc. I also refuse to eat aged foods like cheese, beer, wine, or pickles. I eat only certain food combinations based on texture.
It is common for Aspies to eat what many would complain to be bland, or repetitive.
Aspies tend to have heightened senses, and so condiments (mustard, etc) are TOO strong for an Aspie (like a bright shining light in your eyes), an Aspie can taste quite well what NY's would not be able to, so need to "spice it up" if only with ketchup.
The repetitive menu choice comes from the subconscious logical way of thinking, if choice A is better than choice B, I'll take A. But that choice is the same choice the next day, and the next. The logic goes: why chose something less pleasing when something more pleasing is available?
NT's on the other hand, do not tend to have such logic, nor are their tastes as exacting (ie less sensitive), so they will vary since food that rates B+++ is much like food that rates B++++. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sun, July 15, 2007 - 5:32 AMwell the whole thing just doesnt really make sense to me.
my daughter likes ketchup, or spiced pickles, she particularly likes pickled onions, and will devour a whole jar in one hit, if left alone with it for a couple of hours..
she loves my indian food, will eat my thai dshes, but none if it contains chicken. However, if I sauté vegetables in a little chicken stock, she adores it.
she claims she loves vegetable soup, but cant explain to me why she doesnt like a particular soup.. (I think she doesnt know herself).
I strongly suspect it is, what you said before, more of a texture than a taste thing.. and I am trying to understand it better.
the raisins in peanut butter story helps me understand. though she herself hates raisins, so that wouldnt apply specifically.. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sun, July 15, 2007 - 7:33 AMFirst - I wonder if some of this might be a disconnect between the biological urge and the normal action taken to satisfy that urge. I talked about my own experience with that type of effect in the asexuality thread. It might be that she simply doesn't make the connection between hunger and eating. Or maybe the feeling of hunger is actually more pleasing than the feeling of eating or being full. The normal rules of urges and sensations don't always apply with us.
I've noticed that I sometimes make rules about food as a way of limiting decisions I'll have to make later. I decided I don't like mushrooms long ago, probably something to do with texture. I might like them prepared in some other way, but in order to find out I'd have to try them several more times. I'd have to keep track of the results, try to determine what the difference is between the way I liked and the way I didn't, and try to extrapolate the results when making decisions about new dishes. It can all be very frustrating since I often don't even know WHY I like or dislike something. It's much easier to just permanently take mushrooms off the menu.
I like chicken, but have noticed it can be unpredictable. One time it's great, the next you get a chunk of slimy fat along with it. Or an undercooked bit. A couple of these experiences, especially with someone who doesn't like eating to begin with, could easily get it put on the permanent ban list, whereas chicken stock tends to be much more predictable. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sun, July 15, 2007 - 9:00 AMThank you dork, for explaining it so clearly. You sound just like my daughter.. so I think you and her would be fine dinner dates.. ;-)
Chris,- yes non-mushy tends to be what I like, and things like soup or mush is something I dont cook that much.. She doesnt like Lasagne, or Quiche, but she likes very boiled potatos with a big smothering of white sauce (&parlsey), which for me is already on the slippery side..
Yes, the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that me, NT, gets bored eating the same things all the time. I have lived in many countries, and love many different cuisines and dishes.. and simply get bored eating the same things week in week out. My daughter however, would probably ever get tired of certain things..
And I think of it as unhealthy the way she eats.
(White loaf and pickled onions..?)
She also never seems to get tired of Spaghetti with Pesto sauce (from the jar), or waffles, straight from the packet.
esh foods she claims she likes, like granny smith apples, star fruit, fennel (raw), red peppers (raw), carrots (raw). But if I buy them, make a point of making sure she knows its there.. she just 'forgets' its there, and when I remind her, she says she isn't hungry.
I think its more like Dork explains,- that she doesnt make the connection between being hungry and eating food. She gets very absorbed in something, and forgets to eat, or considers it a nuisance distraction..
Whe she was very young, like 5-7 years old, I also had to watch that she didnt get too light, and I would 'plant' little bowls of nuts, raisins (she did like them then!), sliced apple and other fruit around the house, where she would absentmindedly reach in and eat a whole bunch. Before I had adopted that tactic, I would have asked her to sit down and eat and was often disappointed, because she didnt finish her plate of food she had previously claimed she liked.. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 11:05 PMYou sound just like my mom. I wouldn't worry about it too much. The human body is designed to thrive on much less food intake than we think. She'll eat when she needs to. I read a marvelous book about a year ago that changed my life - the Bragg book The Miracle of Fasting. I use the raw apple cider vinegar and raw honey tonic with a touch of molasses to keep my strength up even on days when I'm not "officially" fasting. If you get the mix right you can get it to taste like apple cider. Me, I don't care enough to take the time to measure it right each day, so mine usually tastes like 3 bean salad dressing.
"foods she claims she likes, like granny smith apples, star fruit, fennel (raw), red peppers (raw), carrots (raw). But if I buy them, make a point of making sure she knows its there.. she just 'forgets' its there, and when I remind her, she says she isn't hungry."
----I do this to myself. I quit buying fresh food years ago because it just rots in the fridge. I can get involved in something for days and never "get around" to eating. Worse, sometimes I can be hungry and go into the kitchen, get cookbooks, then sit and read them for hours without ever summoning up the motivation to actually deal with food. Sometimes food is just repellent, no matter how hungry I am. It goes in cycles. I used to always carry a case of slim fast in my car because I can usually manage to DRINK something even if I can't eat. In fact, I can live on milk and white bread alone (which I normally disprove of mightily)... oddly, just like your daughter - those are the ONLY two foods I can eat in certain states...
About these states, not only is there a bit of an anorexic twinge, a good empty feeling going on, but there are physical barriers to eating as well. The way I have learned to tell that I am done eating is that there is a subtle shift in my breathing. I can no longer breath comfortably through my nose, I have difficulty swallowing, chewing, and I have to suck air in through my mouth. These symptoms also present if I try to eat when not hungry or in one of these states, even if nominally hungry. Chewing is repugnant. To be forced to try to eat is a violation of deepest nature, like rape. I can't explain why. Just let it go.
Oh, and mushrooms. Like the flavor, can't stand the texture. Using a food processor or blender, pulverize them into pulp together with onions, garlic, and parsley; simmer for an eternity with a little water over pork chops. Make lots and serve with mashed potatoes and dinner rolls. Good stuff. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 11:21 PMMy ten year old son is too...so we have a real lively household!
You have heard the saying " get out of the bed on the wrong side " It can be a little like that at times, but it isn't the war zone that it used to be between him and myself.........my Wife is very patient with the both of us! -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 4:36 PMThank you all guys..
In a way it does make me feel better. What you all seem to agree on is that in a certain state, anxiety or whatever, you get a sensation that you dont want to swallow.. and therefore food doesnt seem appealling.
If that is just a Asperger thing,- then maybe I just have to accept it..
Tonight we had a big slice of fried salmon in a japanese sauce (we used to live in japan, so this is home food to us), and a BIG helping of many different organic vegetables roasted in the oven with a olive oil/cardamom/salt glaze.. and low and behold: she and my other daughter both enjoyed it!! -Licked the platter clean.
I guess if I can just get her to eat a good square meal now and then, I will have to let it go..
But we are on school holiday now, and she does tend to eat better then. You are probably right, it is stress related.
Thank you all for your advice, your tips for quick fix foods and websites,- Its all "food for thought" (excuse the pun) for me, and I shall try to take all of yours advice. ;-))
Jana -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 5:12 PMIt is not that I don't want to swallow.....it is that I can't and balk on the food. Hot chicken and seafood can have the same effect!
I will actually vomit when it hits the stomach!
happy that you achieved a little more insights from my ramblings
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Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:41 PMI think I have fewer eating problems then some aspies.They have gotten better with age because the taste buds die off and smi=oking has actually killed some of the sensitivities.The exception is some textures...like cottage cheese,anything that reminds me of "vomit",and chemical taste...which is very difficult to discribe but tastes/smells very bitter to me.One of my problems with fresh fruits and veggies is that I can taste the chemicals "in" them,no matter how well I wash them.So,I like the idea of them but can't get beyond the "bitter".
Vitamens cause to issues for me..the smell is horrid and I often feel like throwing up when they hit my throat.However,I feel they are very important to dealing with stress,AS,and depression.I have tried to inform myself about their usefullness to make my "logic" override my aversion to the negative sensations.You could consider this for your daughter.Sometimes we can indure pain,when we truely beieve it is in our best interest.
My other concern for her is the suger.As a recovered alcoholic/depressive,I am very attracted to suger and could easily live on nothing else.I am paying the price with root canals and caps...pretty expensive learning process.Toast with honey was one of my favorites and one of the worst because the four "glues" the suger between the teeth.Another issue with suger is,it's the favorite fuel of yeast.I think it's over growth can cause some serious side-effects...depression,brain fog are my worse.(I think it also makes me more prone to allergic reactions).
Perhaps if you can get her interested in this topic,(it came naturally for me,because health is an interest of mine),she might be more willing to tolerate the negative sensations of swallowing the vitamens.
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Re: Aspies and Food
Sat, July 14, 2007 - 1:04 PM
leave her alone with her food choices
give her room for her 18 year old independence
allowing her this space
will more likely render food a non-control feature
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 7:23 PMJana,
I'm not an aspie but my 7 year old is and I can tell you from my experience they are picky. As for her weight, it's okay, a little underweight but not terribly alarming unless she is bigger boned. I was 105lbs at the age of 20 and I'm 5'2.
I would just try foods she definately enjoys eating. Maybe organic types of foods could help open up her diet and trying probiotics and multivitamins.
Both my kids are on Vitamins and probiotics. They drink raw milk and eat raw cheese and they're doing really well. Hope this helps. :) -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, July 20, 2007 - 9:19 PMhaha mystik, you just about list all the things she Definitely wouldnt touch with a barge pole!
milk, out. vitamins liquid or tablet, out. cheese, suspicious, but gets binged on if at the correct stage of ripeness..
and as for organic veg: she is proud of her mum growing our own veg,- but thats when my heart really sinks, when I make a veggie soup, as she claims she wants to eat one, so I go and pull all that veg from the garden, scrub and clean,chop and boil, and that isnt counting all the hours preparing the soil, weeding watering debuging etc.. and then after its made she smiles lamely and declares that she isnt hungry now..
arrgh!
Its not so much that I worry that she is too skinny, but I worry about her unbalanced diet. She often has sore throat, and stomach upsets, as well as being generally tired and somewhat 'limp' and pale.
For a while she loved just eating mayonnaise sandwiches (white sliced loaf, naturally). -
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:41 PMJana,
Mayonaise sandwiches seem to be my 5 year olds fave. He goes into the fridge and just makes one for himself with a slice of cheese in it. He is too cute. Anyhow, back to the subject. Liquid vitamins could be very yummy if you get the brands at the health food store. There's a mango flavored one and both of my kids LOVE it. It sounds like your daughter is a bit pickier. Hmmm.....about the sore throats? Try natural raw honey to soothe it. -
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:42 PMAnd Jana, You're a great mom! I can tell! Have you tried giving her elderberry syrup? -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 1:19 AMShe doesnt like elderberry anything, but that might be a texture thing- maybe she would accept syrup. If its made right, it will have lots of goodness in it. Thanks for the tip, I'll try that.
As for the flavoured vitamin syrups, we have tried so many! But basically anything Orange,(Orange, Mango, Tropical etc) or Pink flavour (Rspberyy Strawberry), as she calls it, is out, and that would mean 99% of all commercial products..
As I said, she is a honey addict recently, so at least that something. I dont hink its nearly balanced enough though, and rather high on sugar..
-Thanks for the compliment btw, much appreciated,- I Do try! -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 11:17 AMwhat about grape and grapes jana?
some of the vitamin products are grape flavored as well..
chris -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, July 26, 2007 - 11:25 AMthanks chris, not here in Switzerland, unfortunately..
when we lived in Japan they had many grape flavoured products, and I know she would like that.. shame.
I can put some on my requests list when anyone I know goes to the USA. I myself am unlikely to go in the near future. -
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 5:21 PMGuess what? My son takes his probiotics, vitamins and cod liver oil and he's excelling in his academics in school, he's potty training very well, and he listens to us better and responds in conversation. So Probiotics is KEY to trying to cure autism of any sort of degree.
Jana, I wish you luck. I know you can order some things online if you're curious.
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 8:11 PMRaw and natural honey is good for her! Keep giving it to her. It helps ward off infection -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 4:55 AMthank yu Mystik,- my daughter is 18, and if she doesnt eat anything - I really am powerless to make her eat it. Its a different ballgame when they are older..
yes, even her TCM practitioner told me to let her eat as much as she likes.. Unfortunately she doesnt brush her teeth, and I worry about eatinng so much sugar and nothing much else with it. It could lead to kidney damage, or Diabetes..
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Re: Aspies and Food
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 7:44 AMWhen I was a kid, I got into a routine that meals occur at specific times. Breakfast was always 7 AM, lunch was always at noon, and dinner was always in the early evening. I would eat during those times, even if I wasn't hungry. I was a fincky eater when I was a kid, but getting into a routine is what worked for me, because I would eat anything, even if I didn't like it. Why? Because I couldn't eat desert until I finished everything on my plate. I absolutely had to have desert. Even today, I feel the need to eat something sweet after finishing the main course of meals.
Though, there are certain foods that I don't buy and eat myself: potatoes, mashed potatoes, restaurant french fries, beef, pork, and raw apricots. I don't like those foods because of their textures. I also used to hate soggy cereal... but I discovered that Cheerios isn't so bad, so I began eating that every single morning. My meals tend to be the same thing every day, but I figure all that's important is that I consume the basic nutrients. Whatever I miss can get replaced by a multi-vitamin. -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 5:00 AMThank you Tawna for your input.. Yes I did make her sit and eat it all up, or no desert..
But you know, she is incredibly stubborn. One day she sat all day at the table, not allowed to get up before she had eaten..
We kept having these traumatic meals, for years,- to this day she holds me to my promise that she never ever has to eat spinach again, because she finished a little morsel of it when she was maybe 7..
(this is the only food I made that deal !)
And vitamins: forget it. No tablets, no sirups.
Someone below suggested elderberry juice,- my daughter claimed she woul try,- it has been standing here for a couple months now, and she keeps making excuses..
I can tell you, I am soooo fed up trying things,- battling with her about it.
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 9:49 PMIt sounds a good bit psychiatric. My son is an aspie and he's thin and picky (with some range), but I've noticed that when he's happier, he eats more. Alternately, when he's sad or acts in a distant sort of way, he has less interest in food. It sounds telling that you don't know what she's eating at school, that is, that she won't tell you? I know she's eighteen and all, that it is a different ballgame at that age, but from what I've seen (and heard), aspies have a much harder time connecting with people in general, and even if they withdraw from that and act in an indifferent fashion, they have to be hurting on some level. It could be you're parental concern is only making it harder for her, at that age, but it doesn't mean that there isn't something you can do. Does she have any kind of a councilor or therapist? My son's mom is the major contributor of his Asperger's, and she's on anti-depresents. It's not a perfect solution, but it does help her some. I know it's tough to be the parent, but hang in there.
P.S. check out stanleygreenspan.com for the latest treatments and perspectives on Aspergers. Very interesting stuff there! -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 10:31 PMEmotions run high with us, it is like not knowing when you sad. You are always in a constant state of anxiety. When I am sad or upset,i don't feel like eating because the food gets stuck in my throat.Logic with us works in different ways to others. I will be 60 early next month, so we do survive......just don't panic, it just makes the one with Aspergers dig their heels in, that is when the emotions take control. All rationality then goes out the window. Sometimes it is good if two with these Attributes can talk to each other!
You have to learn to control your emotions so that they can learn to control theirs.
This is from one with Aspergers. -
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Unsu...
Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 7:02 PMMy son is picky too and he's thin. Lord knows he's below the national average. He takes his vites and his suppliments though so I feel very fortunate. He's excelling in school, wants to be sure he finishes all his work before he moves onto anything else too. He's more focused.
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Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 7:47 PMBard, I'm gonna frame that next to last sentence (about controlling emotions). It is soo my son,sometimes (and his mom doesn't really get it). Thanks -
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Re: Aspies and Food
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 8:10 PMYou are welcome! Sometimes the atmosphere here can get a little thick. Sometimes things between my wife and I can get a little strained, I have learnt to walk away before things escalate! I can be a little hard to live with at times!
So can two with Aspergers living in the one house hehehe!
May your Future go well!
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Re: Aspies and Food
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:58 PMmy younger daughter as a baby just beginning to eat did not have much of a swallowing reflex. Even amongst the non aspies in our family, we have gagging issues with food, when stressed.
A nursing student taught me this trick: take the smooth underside of the spoon and stroke it nicely in a downward motion on the skin between the nose and upper lip. Just once, then put a bite into the mouth, chew and swallow. repeat as necessary, with each bite. I only needed to do it a few times at the beginning of a meal. It stimulates the swallowing reflex.
